[START TAPE 1, SIDE A]

This is an interview with Mrs. Dora Reeder (DR). She is a retired [principal and] teacher in Hillsborough County. The interview is being conducted on July 10, 2001 in Mrs. Reeder's home. The interviewer is Marti Everitt (ME), representing the Tampa-Hillsborough County Public Library System’s Oral History Collection project.

(recorder is turned off and then back on)

Dora Reeder: Well, we can see what you had in mind, uh. Could I offer you a coke or something?

Marti Everitt: No, I'm fine. The reason that your name was put forward for this project is because you've been a teacher in Hillsborough County for a long time.

DR: I was a teacher for about three years, and then I was given a promotion and at that time, the title of that position was “helping teacher”. Are you taping this? Well, when I retired, I retired as a school principal. I guess you know that.

ME: No, I didn't know that.

DR: Yes. And as I said, I was given a promotion at that time, the title of the position was “helping teacher.” My job was to go all over the county and work with black beginning teachers, first year teachers. I was the only one working with blacks at that time. There was no integration at all.

I went all over the county, addressing whatever needs of these teachers there were first year, assigned to a new school. I showed them how to work with materials, in the system, all that sort of thing, to sort of help them to get more comfortable with what they were doing.

Um, at the time I was given the position, I was told that if I did alright that first year, then they would hire another person the following year. As I said, we were segregated then and so all of those, the white schools, there was a helping teacher for every grade level.

ME: Wow.

DR: Yeah. Um, I had to do grades one through six. In other words, I had to learn materials,  ( ) and that sort of thing and teach beginning teachers how to…

ME: For every grade in every school.

DR: For grades one through six in every black school. And so, I was told that, if I did okay that year, then the following year they would give me some help. Well, apparently I did alright because the next year they did find another person and…

ME: Do you remember what year that was?

DR: I surely don't. I'm sure somewhere, I must have some information on that, but it's been so long that I, uh, I just couldn’t recall it off hand. Um--

ME: Could you take a guess? The '60s?

DR: Probably, probably it was, it might have been the '60s but I think now, it might, I think it perhaps had been like the '50s.

ME: Late 50’s, maybe?

DR: I can't say because I'm not even sure, you know, how far back it would go and I don't know where, I'm sure I have some of that kind of information around here some place, but it just goes back so far. So I worked at that and then, um--

ME: So you finally got some help.

DR: Yes. The person they hired… Now, I had taught school, but I taught sixth grade, that was the grade that I taught the longest, y'know. So I was, y'know, pretty comfortable with grades four through six, but then I had to really reach to find out what materials they used.

But I did it and at that time, we were meeting at the courthouse, it’s not there…it’s been a long time, so I don’t remember all that stuff. But they, the white helping teachers, had a big room that they met in. I was not permitted to meet with them. I had to meet…That's why when you told me you wanted me to talk about the old stuff, I don’t want to talk about all that stuff, y'know?

ME: I'm sure it must be painful.

DR: I can't describe what it, it is sad, y'know, that they, I don't know. What could I have been had I had the very same things they did, y'know? There was one, there was one helping teacher in that group who was Hispanic. She was Hispanic and often they would have, um, persons to come in from the book companies and do demonstrations and all that stuff. I was not permitted to sit with them.

I was in this room off from the supervisor, I think that was his position at the time. Frank Miles was his name and he had a little room off his that he'd let me do my work in. But this one girl, anytime they got someone in, representative of some of the book companies, uh, that would do demonstrations, and tell you how to use their materials and all of that sort of thing. She would always come and get me and then let me go to the door. They would let me come in and meet with him and then I would go back to me own room.

ME: Your closet.

DR: Um hmmm. Yeah. And I, as I said, having worked with only sixth grade , it was a little difficult for me to really get onto the primary work, but I, I struggled and I did it and I was determined to make that year a successful one because I thought, well, y'know, if I do alright with this then they'll let, they’ll get another black person. And they did and this girl had taught first grade a long time and I had taught sixth grade so maybe, between the two of us, we could do it together. And, I think there was the next thing and I can't remember the date, but, uh, I was given a promotion at this small school down in Sulphur Springs. Grades one through eight.

ME: What was the name of that school?

DR: I think it was Dillard.

ME: Dillard?

DR: Dillard. I think that was the name of it. ( ) Dillard was the name of the school. I don't think it was elementary, because I do remember the grades there were one through eight when I stayed there ( ) years. But I think I'm ahead of my story because I really started out at the Lomax Elementary School. That's where I started teaching.

I graduated two years of college from Bethune-Cookman College. What I’m doing is backing up, because I think I jumped ahead. I’m only telling you about, I had begun telling you about what happened in Hillsborough County, but I began my teaching career up in Live Oak, Florida. Um, I was in summer school that year and I was gonna graduate, with two years of college, you could teach then, with two years of college.

ME: Right. My grandmother was a teacher, and she never went to college. She had gone through some high school and that was enough.

DR: Yes, and you know, we did alright. Anyway, I had taught in Live Oak, Florida for about three or four years and was making fifty dollars a month!

ME: Oh my goodness.

DR: Fifty dollars a month. And um, then I worked, Bethune’s calendar was eight months, Hillsborough County’s nine months long. I lived in Tampa, so I went to school for eight months and then I'd come home and substitute that ninth month and I, I guess I must've done a satisfactory job because Hillsborough County offered me a position and that's when I began my teaching career at Lomax Elementary School.

And then I heard that they were building a new school and this was just such a fantastic thing, a new school for blacks, y’know. And uh, one of the, not one, the one black supervisor, her name was, uh, what was her name? Mrs., uh, it’ll come back to me. Gardner. Mrs. Gardner, she liked me. She was impressed with my work and she said, "I gonna put you out at Lomax. We’re gonna build a new school and I’m going to recommend that you, they’re gonna have to move some teachers from this school to this new school, which was College Hill. That was the name of that school.

Brand new school, getting’ a chance to work in a new school, that was fantastic. And I did get to go, you know. And uh, that's ( ) College Hill, I worked into the Helping Teachers Program. And now I think I have it in appropriate order.

ME: Were you at College Hill for a number of years?

DR: Maybe like, um, three, two or three years, not long, not too long. And so, I went from that and the next thing I knew, ( ) Sulphur Springs.

ME: That's quite honor.

DR: Yes, I think, I felt good about it and all along though, I was going back to Tuskegee every summer, working on the other two years of college. Because I, ( ). Somebody in Administration told me, "You don't have to do all of that. You've got enough education. You can go on and teach with what you have." I was determined to get a degree and I did that.

ME: A personal goal.

DR: Yes, and I went for five summers, five ten-week summers, to get those other two years.

ME: Oh my…you were determined.

DR: Yes, I was…from a little, little, little girl, I wanted to teach. And I taught all the kids in the neighborhood. [laugh]

ME: Where did you live when you were a little girl?

DR: Uh, I lived for a while in Sanford, Florida with my grandfather and then my mother, who was living here at the time, came and brought me to Tampa. ( ).

ME: And you were a principal for how many years?

DR: Mmmm, I’ll have to look on some of those plaques over there.

ME: You have a lot of honors over there on the wall.

DR: Yeah. And so…it seems like, I was not, I was not a principal that long, but it seems like it, you can look over there and see, I’d rather… Because I don't, I don't try to hold all of that stuff in my mind and…

ME: Well, after we talk I'll just write down.

DR: Yeah, you can do that.

ME: When did you retire?

DR: '84.

ME: In '84?

DR: Mm hmm.

ME: You had been a principal up until that time?

DR: Oh yes. After I became a principal, I never did anything else. And I did go on and Ieven got my Master’s Degree. Oh yeah, I did, I went to Tuskegee, and got an BS degree in education. And then I went to New York University for one summer, because I wanted to uh, I liked people and I, after I had worked with, I told you about the children and all, I felt like I wanted to do something like some kind of social work.

I went on up to New York University, one summer. I told them that I wanted to get a masters' degree in social work. And they looked at my transcript and then told me that I would have to almost start all over again and I didn’t know. Nobody ever told me anything about that ( ) but I knew what I wanted to do 'cause I liked people and I accepted it. So I just went on to Florida A&M and started working on my masters and I did get my master's degree from Florida A&M. I didn't get back to New York University.

By that time I had a child and I didn’t want to be too far from him. My mother was keeping him for me, ‘cause my mother lived with me, and she was keeping him while I went to school and all of that. But I didn't want to be…’cause he was sickly when he was small, y'know. If you’d see him there now, you wouldn’t believe that. And I, well, from Florida A&M, I could get home quickly, y'know. From New York, that was quite a ways to come. So, I wound up with a masters degree from Florida A&M University.

ME: And did you end up with your masters in social work or in education?

DR: Education. Yeah, I stayed with education.

ME: When they tell you, you have to go back and start over.

DR: That was too much, yeah, ‘cause I had a kid, and all... It was just too much. I didn’t feel that I needed but I figured... I ( ) with education, rather. However, I started getting involved in some ( ) service activities because I had this, this desire to, y'know, to work with people and to do things, to better the community and better my circumstances. So that’s how I started working in the community and I did a lot of community work with ( ). That’s right here. [laugh]

ME: Oh, I bet there’s plenty more of those. Did you, um, I thought, I think somebody told me that you had taught some of the people who went to be leaders in Tampa.

DR: Yes. Um, one that jumps out at me ‘cause he was grew up to let people, to remind people that I was his sixth grade teacher. Um, Jimmy Hargrett, he was a state senator. And I have to think of some of the others. I hadn’t thought about, that you’d want to know that… Um….

ME: How many of them?

DR: That’s hard for me…That's one I remember. I, um, I run into him more frequently than, I think, some of the others that I, that I taught. But I’m always running into people that were students of mine at Dunbar. That’s where I retired, from Dunbar. It was a sixth grade ( ) then. But, uh, I was one of the first, I was suppose, one of the first schools of the ten schools that were going to be integrated, five black and five white. And I was, when they paired the schools, all paired up in Tampa and they had to take all children from both communities in grades one through three. No, I was to take grades one through three. I did take grades one through three. And West Tampa took all of the children from the both communities, grades four, five and six. That lasted one year and um, that was quite an experience.

ME: How did it go?

DR: Well, we made it through the year and nothing, nothing happened, it was, you know.

ME: No incidents.

DR: No incidents, no. It was a very, very difficult year for me, there, I’ll tell you that.

ME: I can imagine.

DR: Yes. Because um, most of the communities, the white communities were Hispanic people. I just don’t know whether they were sure of, I don't think it was a prejudice kind of thing. I think that maybe they might have been afraid of the communities. ‘Cause the school I’m talking about is um, is gone. North of here about six or eight blocks. So, in that year, and that part of Tampa, had black men and, I mean, they’d hang out and I guess, I guess uh, the parents of those children didn't know what to expect or what might happen to their children. I had so much volunteer help that year. [laugh] I mean, I didn't know what to do with it all, because so many people were willing. And y'know, I can understand that. I, I guess I was doing the same thing.

ME: Wanted to keep an eye on things.

DR: Yeah, I don't, yeah. By that time, my son was in Plant High School. He was, uh, in one, I remember the first, maybe even the first day, I’m, I’m, all of this is sort of foggy. All I remember is that, when he was at the beginning of the term and you know, and he was a junior or a senior at Plant and I'm over there trying to integrate this school,…it must've been that first year when I paired with West Tampa, I forgot. Someone told me that they were about to have a riot or something at Plant and in fact, I forgot, you know, ‘cause I didn’t know how he was getting home or anything.

ME: Plant had been a white school up til then?

DR: Uh huh. Yeah. And so I told him, I, I, I said I understand they’re going to have a riot or something at Plant High School. I said, "Have white people ever done anything to you?" He said, "No." "Have you ever done anything to white people?" "No." "So you don't have anything to riot about, do you?" “No.” I said, well, if all that stuff starts, here’s a dime, to ride the bus for a dime. Here’s a dime. ( ) call. I told him to call me. That was for the telephone, that was for him to call me on the telephone. My son James, and nothing happened to him. But it was, I'm telling you that to show how hard it was for me. His father was in the military, so I’m just here and my mother was living with me but I'm having all the decision making, the this and the that to do.

ME: Right. You're trying to do your professional duties and your maternal…

DR: Right. You know, I felt very helpless over there, 'cause if anything would have happened to the black kids over there and I was very worried. But it all, all got worked out alright. So…All, all of everything got worked out, really

ME: When Tampa integrated, basically it went fairly smoothly.

DR: It wasn’t bad at all. It really wasn’t. I mean when you think of things that did happen in some places. I, I think that, um, the administration really worked hard to be supportive of us, y'know. And, uh, of course, parents, they were looking over your shoulder. It was very, very difficult for us, right? ‘Cause we had, we had to brief faculty, y'know. And uh, that's, I didn't have too much of a problem with the integration myself because I got along…I might have had one or two occasions, but I , that, one or two incidents that either would not have had but might have had, might have happened if we didn't have that integration. I had people who was just gonna lie to teachers and…and I insisted on equality for us, y’know. ( ) and I kept them abreast of the ( ) .

Having been a helping teacher, helped me ( ), y'know, um. Because I knew what to look for in the classrooms, and I just ( ). I had a good PTA. I know when, past the integration, I went to Dunbar, they had a PTA, maybe the first day I walked up to Dunbar, there was a lot of sand, no lawn or anything, it was just, just sand. I went in a classroom and found just dust on the windows. You never could keep the windows open, there was no air and all that stuff.

So, one of the first things I had my PTA to do, and they were always accomplished at raising lots and lots of money. In fact, they were always just as quick as can be with big baskets of fruit and candy and all kinds of stuff for the children, but they were doing nothing for the school. I wanted them to improve the appearance of the school. I’ll never forget. That was the first project I had been successful on. They did not like the ( ). They didn’t want..I wanted a lawn! In front of the school.

ME: They didn't want to spend money…

DR: No. They didn’t want to do that. They, uh, I could see this lady now, talking about that…now what did they call it? Christmas cheer for the school, that's what they wanted. And I'm telling them about all this sand blowing in from the windows on the children’s desks. That didn’t phase them, y'know? But, I got my lawn.

ME: Good for you.

DR: Yeah. Uh, and I tell you, I think--

ME: Y'know, when your school looks good, you’re proud of it.

DR: Yeah! And that was what I wanted, y’know? But they just hadn’t, I guess they hadn’t a person, ‘cause these are some of the kinds of things…make your school look good. And make sure things are going on inside the school, but when you…Your first impression…you walk up to the school, what do you see? All this dirt, you walk through dirt. I mean, to get into, get into the school. So anyway. I don’t know why that stays out in my mind [laugh].

ME: Yeah, well I guess it was a first victory for you.

DR: Yeah. Yeah.

ME: Did the PTA come around then?

DR: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And then, um, after that, that was, see that was all black. After integration, all the real good sound PTA's. They did a lot of things for the school, a lot of things. Very supportive. And we had programs in the evening, they would come. And at first they were shy about coming, not knowing what kind reception they would have in the community.

ME: Did the children seem to get along, or ( )?

DR: I’m gonna show you, I’m gonna show you some of the things the children.. This will tell you about, when I came home, when I retired, there would always be giving me something, bringing me something, always smiles from the children. That's it. Um, and then I brought, when I retired, I brought some things home and just put them up in this little area back here. I want to show you that.

ME: Okay. You had said something about a book you wanted to show me. Did you ever find it?

DR: Mm hmm. I found it. I went and got all the material, I said I can't be at that age, y'know? Talked to her.

ME: Well, tell what you taught, what you thought ( )?

DR: Well, do you want to look at this?

ME: Sure.

DR: This stuff was done by uh, uh, some ladies asked me in ’98? It’s lodge for ladies. They asked you if they could nominate me for Outstanding African American Woman. This is a state-wide thing. ( ) And one of the ladies is a member of my church, and she just kept insisting on and I originally didn’t want to go through all this stuff, so I said, “Well, okay”, see this lady who goes to my church. Um, so, they had me to do this but they didn’t realize that, see they were hosting this national meeting, convention or whatever it was. They were hosting it that year.

ME: Here in Tampa?

DR: No. No, in Jacksonville, I believe or Miami one. Anyway, when they got to the meeting, after I've done all of this stuff, they found out that they, the persons who hosted the meeting, they were not eligible to submit…. After all of this work. ( ).

ME: Do you remember what year this was?

DR: It should be in there someplace.

ME: It probably is. So you did all of this work and then they said you couldn't be nominated?

DR: And they said to tell them to be sure to have me submit it the following year and I wasn’t too excited about that. (slight pause)

ME: I just talked about all the things you've done in your biography, your work with the Urban League.

DR: That was a way of satisfying that desire to do social work.

ME: ( )? You were busy!

DR: Yeah. I’m sure it wasn’t easy. And, ( ).

ME: Was this ( )?

DR: Uh, I guess ( ). ( ).

ME: And you were talking about the sand and getting your lawn, first impression of Dunbar Elementary.

ME: That might be something interesting to go back and look at again. That was November 27, 1997. I don’t think I looked at that. This is about your awards…and I want to look at those..

DR: Okay.

ME: You know you said that, um, you wonder what you could have been if you had had more opportunities and that probably, when you were growing up, you probably didn't have a lot of, most women really didn't become much of anything other than teachers and nurses.

DR: That's right. Um, that's, that's what was available to black women. And as I said, my mother reared my, y'know. Um and I came to live with her at about eleven years of age. My grandfather took me when I was real small, ‘cause my mother was having a bunch of ( ), y’know. So he took me and my brother and he kept us til I was about ten or eleven. And that’s when I went to live with my mom. And I wanted to work. I mean from a little girl, I wanted to help her ( ). She was a dressmaker but she went out, she sewed out of her home every day, have come to their house to sew. ( ).

ME: Did she work for a white ladies?

DR: Yeah. After ( ), only because she was working out every day in somebody's home …

[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A]

[START TAPE 1, SIDE B]

DR: …her work, y’know. She made some of the dress designs and all that sort of thing.

ME: Was that recently?

DR: What, the article?

ME: The article in the Tribune?

DR: Uh, it was, it appeared in the Tribune ( ) and she passed away in---

ME: Did it appear about a year ago or so?

DR: 19, this year.

ME: I think I saw it. I think I remember seeing an article in the Tribune about a woman who had been a dressmaker.

DR: That was my mother.

ME: Wow. So she brought you here. Now did she encourage you to, you know, while you were pursuing your education, that was sort of out of the ordinary for people like you?

DR: She never discouraged me. But she always told me though, "Now, you know I don't have any money," and I talked to her because ever since I was a little girl that's all I talked about, getting and education, just want to get an education. And she told me and I remember, first, my first goal was to finish high school. Because a lot of kids were not going to high school, they would stop, they would stop and go to work and they worked for white people. And the young girls would work in the kitchen, washing dishes and all that sort of thing.

My mother would never would let me do that and so we were ( ), you know? Uh, I was never able to work and help her like other girls would helping their parents to get along. And she would say, “I don’t want you to go and work in a kitchen.” That’s what she would say, you know. And ah, so I, I said before, "Okay, now just let me finish high school.” My mother drew one dime a day for lunch. Can you imagine that? That’s all she could afford! But!

ME: You couldn't buy anything with a dime anymore.

DR: Oh my goodness, you can't even buy a soda with that [laugh]. But, uh, it didn't matter, as long as I was going to school. That was the important thing for me. Boy, when I finished high school, I was so happy. Then, mother, “Now you know I can’t send you to college” and I said, "Yes, I understand." But in the meantime, I heard about uh, some, some man at the top of teachers from the school system trying, I heard he was supposed to be in Tampa. And he was going to be living at this hotel, all black hotel. That was the only one, blacks were not living in white hotels then. So, I called him and asked him if I could talk to him and he met with..

ME: That was brave!

DR: I sure did it. But I’ve always been like that. [laughter] And I, he met me at a little drug store, black ( ), on the corner of Central and ( ), That little drug store, with a restaurant. I said, could you meet me there, if possible. I didn't want to go up to his room, you know. He did meet me there. And uh, he, um, I told him, you know, how much that I wanted to go school. And I said, I guess I must have convinced him, because he to that school and he got a scholarship together for me. But I had to have a certain amount of money to go with the scholarship. And I, see I couldn't go to school right then, ‘cause and I told my mother. And she, even though she had told me, you know, you can't go to college now because there's no money. She struggled somehow, to get this money together. And, and then I went on off to Bethune-Cookman College. And I stayed through the summer. I mean, I judge it was the summer, that’s what I do remember because starting the school year, then I went on up through--

ME: Through spring. No break?

DR: No. All the kids went home, I stayed right there, and then I went to school in the summer.

ME: ( )?

DR: Uh-huh. Oh, I don’t know where we were then. Oh, the ( ) Library.

ME: What did you do with the library?

DR: What'd I do?

ME: Mmm hmm.

DR: I'm on the board.

ME: Oh, you are?

DR: Uh huh and I was chairman of the board one year.

ME: No kidding.

[They talk of personal things for a few minutes.]

ME: So she’s [Angela] doing it as summer work…

DR: Yes.

ME: Do you think she'll go into library work?

DR: No, I don’t think so. She likes business more than anything and, so, and why she didn't go into business, I don't know. But I think she had gotten too far along to turn around and, uh, that's what she wants to do 'cause she's trying to get her masters in that. I told her I would help her, but she would have to work some, y’know. ( ), and need I say more?

(long pause)

ME: Parent of the Year from Tuskegee University.

DR: Mm hmm. That was after ( ) moment, for me.

ME: And so Angela nominated you.

DR: Yes, she wrote the sweetest letter.

ME: Now this is really interesting, now this is the man that you said you taught, Jim Hargrett?

DR: Mmm hmm.

ME: Who wrote you, uh, he’s a senator now?

DR: Mmm hmm. His term is over now, but he was a senator.

(long pause)

ME: Well, you must be proud. ( ) What is the Orchid Club?

DR: What?

ME: The Orchid Club?

DR: Oh…that was a social club here in Tampa. I think, I think they're, I don’t think they're still in existence any longer. I think they're just had so many members passin’ away, that they just disbanded. (long pause) That’s from the library, that’s the um, um…

ME: Ybor.

DR: Mm hmm. Have you been to that library.

ME: Nmm mm (no).

DR: It’s in a poorer section of Tampa and ( ) got to ( ).

ME: The library in the area that I, uh, lived in, that I go to now is the new Jimmie Keel Library.

DR: Oh! I was out there for the dedication.

ME: Were you?

DR: Yeah.

ME: I didn’t go to the dedication..

DR: Yeah, yeah. Well, that is a fantastic library.

ME: It's a beautiful place.

DR: Yes, it really is. I was so happy that they did that for Jimmie Keel, you know?

ME: Tell me, do you know him or who he was?

DR: Oh, yes.

ME: Tell me about him. I don't know anything about him.

DR: Oh, I can't tell you, it's just, well, he's a minister and he worked for the county. He had what was one of the top positions in the county that was right under Mr. Dan Kleeman, I think. I think that's right. I do know that he was, he is very highly respected, by people in the county office and people who work for the county. He’s just a marvelous man and I think that’s why they bestowed this honor on him.

ME: Did he know the Davis family? They’re the people that donated the money.

DR: I know. Uh, that's the second library the Davis family has given to the ( ). I don’t think he knew them that well. [grandfather clock begins chiming] I’ll wait til that stops [laugh].

ME: Well, you have letters of recommendation here from people all over Tampa.

DR: Mm hmm. This person was um--

ME: Mary Bryant?

DR: Uh huh. Do you know Mary Bryant?

ME: No, I don't.

DR: Mary Bryant was assistant, at one time was assistant to ( ). But we were principals at the same time, she helped me move up to this position.

ME: You never wanted to go into that level of administration?

DR: No [laugh]. By that time I was pretty much along with, you know, and school administration…I just liked being around children. I loved that.

ME: You know, I think that sometimes the best teachers and the ones who work so well with children, but to do well they get further and further away from them, the kids, as they move up in the administration.

DR: Mm hmm, but I, I enjoyed children and they enjoyed me, I think and I--

ME: I’ll bet they did..

DR: Yeah, I ( ).I was going to show you these things.

ME: Let’s go look at them.

DR: Okay. (recorder is turned off and then back on)

DR: …what I wanted to do, but I knew I had do this first, before I could do that. And I patiently waited until I could get it done. And ( ) took a long time, but I, I always had plenty of patience .

ME: It sounds to me like, although your mother couldn't support you financially she did allow you, maybe that’s not the right word, to not have to work.

DR: She was determined that I would not. She always said, “I’m just not going to let you work as a housekeeper.” ( ) That's the way she used to say it. Uh, and I think she must've been determined that she wouldn’t work in housekeeping.

You see, because she took this course in sewing from this lady. The lady came down to Tampa from New York, opened up this school, uh, and taught these people to sew. I think she had a very small class and as a seamstress, she did a lot of work on dresses and gowns and all that kind of thing. And then she went on back to New York and that same lady made some of Jacqueline Kennedy's wedding clothes and I think that might have been in the article that she wrote about my mother.

ME: Oh.

DR: Um, my mother stayed here and she built up a --

ME: Clientele?

DR: Mm hmm.. and she just went, she just had somewhere to go every day. She went somewhere every day. She sewed somewhere every day, just like you go to school every day, she sewed every day at somebody’s house.

ME: Uh, one of the, another couple that I interviewed recently, the woman had left school at fourteen to go work in the cigar factories because her family needed her to help out, so that was--

DR: That would have been an interesting interview, too, because they were, I guess, Hispanic people? ( ). My mother stuck by me and then I was about ready to graduate from Bethune-Cookman College, I was the speaker for the class and she--

ME: She must've been so proud.

DR: But let me tell you, she said, now, and I had the ( ) you know, ( )." You had to have a camera and I don't, I think I bought two invitations and maybe one or two, just to have something to remember, but I sent no invitations out, because this was in the '40s and she ( ) she sent, sent me a letter and she sent me a last money that she could scrape together for ( ) and she said, "I'm not going to be able to come," and I knew.

I remember this like it was yesterday. I’m up in this big auditorium where they had me going over my speech, that I was on the stage the day of graduation. And I'm seeing all these seats out there, you know? And I looked out and I said, “I’m doing all of this? And there’s not going to be anybody in my family to hear me” and I just, I just...

You could send a telegram for twenty-six cents. Somebody gave me, what did I have? I had a quarter ( ). I had a quarter and somebody gave me a penny and I wrote, I went and sent this program to my mother. I said, “Mother, please come.” That's all I said. And she borrowed the money from somebody and came. And she….

ME: Wow, that makes me cry.

DR: Oh, yes. Me too, me too. She came and she got on a bus, got the money from somebody and came on. Do you know, you've been inside a college dorm, haven't you? You know the, I don't know how the colleges are. I don't know how… I know when I was there the beds were narrow. My mother and I both slept in that little narrow bed. The mattress was horrible. I remember that. After all of these days, these are the things I remember. And, but we slept in that beds.

And she came, came up on the bus. I don’t know how she got it, but she borrowed the money from somebody to pay that fare. And I felt so proud that day. When I saw all of these people, there was my mother sitting at the front of the audience. Somebody to hear me!

ME: That's wonderful.

DR: Mm hmm.

ME: Did you have any brothers and sisters?

DR: One brother. He lives in Miami and he didn't come to my graduation. And then, when I graduated from Tuskegee, he didn't come. Just my mother, that was all and she came. Then, when I got a masters at Florida A&M, I remember writing him a letter and I told him that he had never been to any previous graduation. I said, “This is as far as I’m going.“

ME: His last chance.

DR: Uh, I asked him to please come, and he came up to Florida A&M. Ah, these are things I must've ( ).

ME: Do you have that article about your mother?

DR: Yeah, I'm sure I have it. Let me, let me see. I think I have it here. (flipping through pages) …biographical...

ME: Oooh look at that…

DR: that’s what I was looking at…. (pages turning) …to see if I could let you have a copy. Yes, have that one, you can have that one.

ME: Oh, great. That would be wonderful. (pages turning) Did you ever help your mother with her dressmaking business?

DR: I hated it [laugh]. No.

ME: That was probably another thing that motivated you to keep going to school so that you didn’t have to become a dressmaker.

DR: I, I did not like that, you know that? She [laugh], she tried to teach me to sew and she always had me ripping something up, y'know? Do it and rip it up. I’m trying to see if there is anything else that I might want to share with you. Um, I had to go drag all this stuff out and…

ME: I used to sew a lot, which is probably why I remember reading that article about your mother and uh, I have one daughter who likes to sew. You know, the seam rippers, with that little pointed end that you use to rip out stitches? She called it the un-stitcher [laugh]. I always thought that was funny.

DR: Yeah. That's kinda cute. Oh, this is from, the president of Tuskegee sent me a letter, telling me that I had been chosen Mother of the Year. And this is, uh, Woman of the Year from another organization. You know, while you’re just kind of browsing through these things, I’ll go look for this?

ME: Her’s a letter from the National Coalition of 100 Black Women, that says you’ve been selected as one of Women ( ) honorees. This was in 1997.

DR: You wanted to see that letter of mother’s, from my mother. That's what I'm going--

ME: If you can find it…

DR: Um, I know I had it here. I (papers rustling). What did you tell me you wanted? Would you like a glass of water?

ME: Yes. Thank you, very much.

DR: Ice in it?

ME: Ice would be perfect. (recorder is turned off and then back on)

DR: …and I looked in the mirror and I felt like my mother was staring back at me. Oh, I said, "( ) you had ( )." The first time I realized that my mother and I looked so much alike. I tell you that it really got to me. I, her passing was so hard. It was very hard. And I know I have it, it's just a matter of finding it. (silent pause) Well…

ME: Well, you know, I can probably go back too, and find it through the newspaper.

DR: Well, I have it. I’m, I think I might have more that one copy. And when I do find it... I, I’ll try to send you a copy.

ME: Okay.

DR: ( ).

ME: The one with the picture, right?

DR: Yes. And I know I had more than one copy ( ). ( ).

ME: Here it is.

DR: You found it?

ME: Mm hmm.

DR: Yeah, okay, that's it. And I have my own, so I’ll give you a copy, okay?

ME: I would really appreciate it. I'll make a copy and send it back to you.

DR: I have a friend who works for the Tribune, um, yes, yes, and he sent a, he sent a ( ) of these things and ( ) copy. ( ) That's what I ( ).

ME: Okay, thank you.

DR: So, now, I was wondering if this continued on another page…

[END OF TAPE 1, SIDE B]

[END OF INTERVIEW]