This is an interview with Claretha Johnson (CJ) of Tampa, FL. This interview is being conducted on August 19, 2003 at the Ybor City Library. Ms. Johnson will tell of her experiences and memories and life over on the east side of town on Central Avenue. The interviewer is Myron Jackson (MJ) with the City of Tampa Community Services Office representing the Central Avenue Business and Entertainment District Oral History Collections Project.

MJ: Ms. Johnson, what are your earliest memories of Central Avenue Business and Entertainment District?

CJ: Well, Central's not my earliest it was the Little Savoy on the corner of Scott and Central. I worked there as a bar maid. I liked it.

MJ: You were basically living in the area of Central Avenue?

CJ: Yes, I was living from ( ) on Central Avenue.

MJ: You had a few businesses there also, didn't you?

CJ: Yes, yes.

MJ: Any place else that you recalled that you worked and the people?

CJ: I worked Jim Masons Center right next to the Greek Stand on Central Avenue.

MJ: The Little Savoy you mentioned that first. Do you know if any of these people that you mentioned, Kid Mason, and Minnie Shoe ( ) who owned the Little Savoy?

CJ: Oh, Cecil Rodriguez.

MJ: O.K. That was Cecil Rodriguez. Tell me a little bit about Kid Mason and who he was.

CJ: Well, I didn't know old man Kid Mason but I know his son, Ralph and his wife, Agnes. And I went to them quite a while.

MJ: He was the guy that had the shoe repair business?

CJ: Yes, in West Tampa.

MJ: And Bennie ( )

CJ: He was the bail bondsman. He was a very nice person to work with.

MJ: About how many years did you work over there, on Central Avenue?

CJ: Good Lord have mercy! Bout ten to fifteen years because I was working big time at the Greyhound Bus Station, ( ) house I was a cook, ( ) I was at Kid Mason, Little Savoy, Henry Joyner, and Moses White.

MJ: Oh. O.K. So that was about four or five businesses that you worked at.

CJ: Most of all I worked all up and down Central all the bars on Central.

MJ: What about some of the events and the things that went on on Central as far as, I know some of these are actual clubs they had entertainment, right?

CJ: Yes.

MJ: So over the years, there were, I guess any number of people that you may have seen.

CJ: ( ), Charles Russell and his band. Jimmy Joyner didn't have a lot bands. The Pyramid had one. Club Sedan, Pearly Nights ( ) and we had some pretty decent policemans they was protecting us on Central and was ( ).

MJ: Who was some of the policemen?

CJ: Curtis Lane.

MJ: Oh, Curtis Lane, yeah he's still active with the City.

CJ: Rufus Lewis, Romeo Coljenning. What is his name, still active.

MJ: Skin?

CJ: Yeah, Skinhead. Shamus. Oscar Yellow, Samuel Filmore.

MJ: What years did you work there?

CJ: Oooh, that was in 78, 79, and until they tore it down.

MJ: So you worked there before 78? You saying up to 78.

CJ: I was working there 78 and 79.

MJ: Are you originally from Tampa?

CJ: I was born and raised in Orangeburg, South Carolina.

MJ: So you migrated down to Tampa.

CJ: At the age of 16 years old.

MJ: And how old are you now?

CJ: 71

MJ: We hear a lot about the entertainment area did you ever encounter people that were from other parts of the country? Entertainers that were there.

CJ: Yeah, James Brown. Joe Simon. ( ) It was Central cause everybody was, there wasn't no district ( ).

MJ: So you saw a little bit of everybody there because they had so much to offer as far as restaurants and entertainment. What are some of the other events that you remember that happened on Central?

CJ: In 1978 I seen two Tampa Police Department, two policemen from Tampa Police Department when the white dude shot the black dude going across the fence.

MJ: That event led to the riots.

CJ: Yeah. I was working at Kid Mason when the riot.

MJ: At Kid Mason what did they do? Did they serve food there?

CJ: They served breakfast, ice cream and ( ).

MJ: After that was when Central began to change significantly with the Urban Renewal Program that came in there. From there it looks as it does today. Do you think it would be a good idea to rebuild Central Avenue?

CJ: Yes, I would. Because there's a lot of the blacks live in Central Park and it's hard to get into that store in Tampa Park Plaza. It be hard for them to get to a meet center.

MJ: So it would be a benefit to the community, if it's right there. It was actually there when Central thrived.

MJ: What were some of the more trying times on Central? Was there a crime problem?

CJ: Yeah. Yes, I seen some crimes. When Lockhart got killed I said ( ).

MJ: Who's Lockhart?

CJ: He was one of them men that represented prostitutes.

MJ: And he got killed on Central?

CJ: On Central and Scott.

MJ: Any other events like that that you recall.

CJ: No, everything else after that, everything went smooth. It was nice and we got along good with the policemens and up until today I still get along with them.

MJ: Do you remember the Lincoln Theatre?

CJ: Oh, yes Lord! Popcorn ten cent, sodas five cent. They need to get a theatre back somewhere in there for the kids. They don't have to go way out to the mall it's hard to get somebody there.

MJ: They used to do Saturday morning kid shows and that sort of thing. That one I remember having gone there myself.

CJ: On Saturday mornings they have the show for the kids, and Mr. Moses White, I was working for him, and he would give children hot dogs and chili, chicken sandwiches. There were a lot of people coming through in this aisle. Oh and they used to have Ms. Harris. She was very nice.

MJ: So it was a true community.

CJ: It was ( ) the older people that helped the kids. You didn't find children not going to school then cause them old people would get out there and they would make them go to school. But their parents just don't care now. Just don't care.

MJ: In Central Park you had Meacham, during that time before schools were integrated, they had a faculty that really cared for the kids.

CJ: You had Ms. Star and Mr. Abrams that was some sweet principal. To work you could go see the kids would go to him. He always had something good to say to them.

MJ: There was also Booker T. Washington that was nearby.

MJ: Is Booker T. Washington closed now?

CJ: Yeah! Meacham School and Booker T.

MJ: Those schools have a long standing history.

CJ: I had three children from graduate come out of Meacham. I had three grandchildren to come out of Meacham. I had three children to graduate from Jefferson. I had a granddaughter graduated from Hillsborough. I had a daughter graduated from Plant. I did working at the School Board. Most ( ) I wished would come back in this community. ( ) would be the East Tampa Community Partnership adding Belmont Heights. With the school, the principals, the mothers, and the you know. We had a good thing going over there in Belmont Height but you know you can't get no value.

MJ: Clearly the schools play an important role as well as the parents reinforcing all that you learn in school as well as working together as a community. And then you add your churches in there.

CJ: We had principals by the name of Ms. Marchello from Bellamy. You had Wallace Bishop from Young. You had um, I can't think of the principal ( ). All the schools are just closed all right in you know ( ) there on Friday. And we had Card Corner and ( ) Robinson all of just as one. And I hope that one day that we can get ( ).

MJ: That's the one they did over at Lee Davis over the weekend. Which is where the Hillsborough County Schools, the kids, and the families, and the schools that they are attending come into the neighborhood and everybody gets acquainted.

CJ: That would be the best thing that I ( ) and I was talking to ( ) she says that's what I want. She was going to help me.

MJ: You say particularly by the Central Park area.

CJ: Yeah, because just like when they had that workshop, having that workshop on I talked to you and Terry came and talked to me. I can say I'm very proud of you and Terry because it happened. And the committee, the police, the city, the county and all of us that enjoyed it last night.

MJ: I think when a person such as yourself, that is experienced in knowing what makes a community a community we certainly have an invaluable resource. In a person of your caliber in having seen Tampa and it's actual communities that thrived in a point and time where it was a benefit to businesses, to people of the students, the parents and families. Then again churches – now, I knew ( ) there's a few churches in that area that are still trying. As a matter of fact, there's one in Central Park, it's no longer a church but these churches are involved with helping Central Park.

CJ: The only church that helps Central Park is the Dream Center. And I wish -- the Dream Center come by on Saturdays. And when the children going back to school give them book bags, and give em new clothes, and the Dream Center comes by here every holiday. They had a church Saturday night came out they give food, they give clothes and I wish you could get more churches to come out to help.

MJ: In keeping with the events that took place, particularly when Central Avenue thrived, I remember actually myself I was affiliated with a Boy Scout troop that was based at Allen Temple. And we would actually, that was a gentleman named Calvin Mormon, that we would actually – a lot of schools from Central Park would also do our exercises and drills through Central Park. So any time you have churches, and communities, and neighborhoods working together you certainly have some similar like you know existed back when Central thrived.

CJ: They told you that they were working ( ) that thing. Not been ( ). And I believe that, that pastor is still ( ). Church of Calling River he come every Sunday getting people up, taking children, ( ) .

MJ: As having been a resident there for a while, did you live in Central Park when Central Avenue was __?

CJ: No, I lived on Central Avenue. I lived on Palms Ave.

MJ: So you didn't live in Central Park at the time you worked there. Is there anything else about Central that really stands out in your mind or that you would like to add to the interview?

CJ: Yes, um when they burned Central down, one man stood up for the community. And God bless the dead, that was Moses White. He stood up for the community. And he let them know, “why are you burning down where you live at?”

MJ: Yeah, it's been kinda difficult to replace Central Avenue.

CJ: Yeah, and I was walking through there the other day, Mr. Dickey. And looked down and I find a silver dollar was made in 1902.

MJ: That's what you found over there?

CJ: By over there in Central.

MJ: That's wonderful. I'm not sure how long Central thrived but certainly um—

CJ: I was um sixteen years old when I ran with my momma to Tallahassee, started working at the Greyhound bus station and the owner, the manager there ( ) he brought me with him. ( ) used to be the post office, they put a Burger King in there, so I said uh uh. Then I find me a job. I started working for Moses White, Kid Mason, the Little Savoy with Henry Joyner, car company, the Pyramid. I never worked in Club Sedan, I was scared of em.

MJ: I'm sorry which place was that?

CJ: Club Sedan. Called the bucket of blood.

MJ: O.K. Where was Club Sedan located?

CJ: That was on the corner of Cass almost on the Corner of Cass and Central it's a ( ) store. Then Club Sedan, then a beauty parlor and all the way down.

MJ: Was the Paradise located up there, too?

had a church Saturday night came out they give food, they give clothes and I wish you could get more churches to come out to help.

MJ: In keeping with the events that took place, particularly when Central Avenue thrived, I remember actually myself I was affiliated with a Boy Scout troop that was based at Allen Temple. And we would actually, that was a gentleman named Calvin Mormon, that we would actually – a lot of schools from Central Park would also do our exercises and drills through Central Park. So any time you have churches, and communities, and neighborhoods working together you certainly have some similar like you know existed back when Central thrived.

CJ: They told you that they were working ( ) that thing. Not been ( ). And I believe that, that pastor is still ( ). Church of Calling River he come every Sunday getting people up, taking children, ( ) .

MJ: As having been a resident there for a while, did you live in Central Park when Central Avenue was __?

CJ: No, I lived on Central Avenue. I lived on Palms Ave.

MJ: So you didn't live in Central Park at the time you worked there. Is there anything else about Central that really stands out in your mind or that you would like to add to the interview?

CJ: Yes, um when they burned Central down, one man stood up for the community. And God bless the dead, that was Moses White. He stood up for the community. And he let them know, “why are you burning down where you live at?”

MJ: Yeah, it's been kinda difficult to replace Central Avenue.

CJ: Yeah, and I was walking through there the other day, Mr. Dickey. And looked down and I find a silver dollar was made in 1902.

MJ: That's what you found over there?

CJ: By over there in Central.

MJ: That's wonderful. I'm not sure how long Central thrived but certainly um—

CJ: I was um sixteen years old when I ran with my momma to Tallahassee, started working at the Greyhound bus station and the owner, the manager there ( ) he brought me with him. ( ) used to be the post office, they put a Burger King in there, so I said uh uh. Then I find me a job. I started working for Moses White, Kid Mason, the Little Savoy with Henry Joyner, car company, the Pyramid. I never worked in Club Sedan, I was scared of em.

MJ: I'm sorry which place was that?

CJ: Club Sedan. Called the bucket of blood.

MJ: O.K. Where was Club Sedan located?

CJ: That was on the corner of Cass almost on the Corner of Cass and Central it's a ( ) store. Then Club Sedan, then a beauty parlor and all the way down.

MJ: Was the Paradise located up there, too?

CJ: Paradise was up on – the Paradise was Lee Davis. It was on coming back this way.

MJ: Is that the same Paradise that also moved over to Belmont Heights?

CJ: On 22nd. Yes. Around the corner from the movie was Chick's.

MJ: O. K. Now was that a restaurant or a club?

CJ: That's our bolita.

MJ: I recall there were a couple of Cozy Corners. I remember there was one that was right next to the Lincoln Theatre, right?

CJ: All right, that Cozy Corner his son, after he died, his name was Steve they went over on 34th across from-- . What that church name that over there?

MJ: Is that Muselle?

CJ: No, Heritage Something. But Cozy Corner, the original Cozy Corner after they burn everything down he went to West Tampa on Main and ( ).

MJ: That's right up near Main and Howard.

CJ: I liked them Moses White rice.

MJ: Did you prepare that? So you know the recipe for the rice and the chili sauce and all?

CJ: Yes, yeah!

MJ: Yeah, it was definitely a tasty meal.

CJ: I worked for a man over there off of 22nd. Off of 15th and 11th Ave. he showed me how to make the chili, he showed me how to make the picadillo. Like picadillo? I know how to make that too.

MJ: O. K. I'm going to have to come visit you one day. I'm so in a hurry I wasn't going to have many a meals there myself, but I always wondered what went into making that sauce.

CJ: You get your hamburger, get your bell pepper, your garlic, your what you want to put in it. Some onions and let it cook and put your sauce and everything and you throw your picadillo in there if you want picadillo and rice, picadillo and green beans.

MJ: Actually you called off some names of a number of restaurants. Was there any other places that they had a specialty just like with Moses White? Their thing was the hot dogs and the fried chicken.

CJ: Well, Ms. Harris.

MJ: Yeah, o.k. Ms. Harris, what did they specialize they served like breakfast, lunch –

CJ: Breakfast, lunch, dinner and chili wonder and ( ) .

MJ: What about some of the other eating places? The Greek Stand –

CJ: Oh! The Greek Stand was called the greasy spoon. It was another place to hand out. You could go in there and only get pizza.

MJ: They also I remember a what Cuban sandwiches.

CJ: Paradise was up on – the Paradise was Lee Davis. It was on coming back this way.

MJ: Is that the same Paradise that also moved over to Belmont Heights?

CJ: On 22nd. Yes. Around the corner from the movie was Chick's.

MJ: O. K. Now was that a restaurant or a club?

CJ: That's our bolita.

MJ: I recall there were a couple of Cozy Corners. I remember there was one that was right next to the Lincoln Theatre, right?

CJ: All right, that Cozy Corner his son, after he died, his name was Steve they went over on 34th across from-- . What that church name that over there?

MJ: Is that Muselle?

CJ: No, Heritage Something. But Cozy Corner, the original Cozy Corner after they burn everything down he went to West Tampa on Main and ( ).

MJ: That's right up near Main and Howard.

CJ: I liked them Moses White rice.

MJ: Did you prepare that? So you know the recipe for the rice and the chili sauce and all?

CJ: Yes, yeah!

MJ: Yeah, it was definitely a tasty meal.

CJ: I worked for a man over there off of 22nd. Off of 15th and 11th Ave. he showed me how to make the chili, he showed me how to make the picadillo. Like picadillo? I know how to make that too.

MJ: O. K. I'm going to have to come visit you one day. I'm so in a hurry I wasn't going to have many a meals there myself, but I always wondered what went into making that sauce.

CJ: You get your hamburger, get your bell pepper, your garlic, your what you want to put in it. Some onions and let it cook and put your sauce and everything and you throw your picadillo in there if you want picadillo and rice, picadillo and green beans.

MJ: Actually you called off some names of a number of restaurants. Was there any other places that they had a specialty just like with Moses White? Their thing was the hot dogs and the fried chicken.

CJ: Well, Ms. Harris.

MJ: Yeah, o.k. Ms. Harris, what did they specialize they served like breakfast, lunch –

CJ: Breakfast, lunch, dinner and chili wonder and ( ) .

MJ: What about some of the other eating places? The Greek Stand –

CJ: Oh! The Greek Stand was called the greasy spoon. It was another place to hand out. You could go in there and only get pizza.

MJ: They also I remember a what Cuban sandwiches.

CJ: Cuban sandwiches. Or they get ( ) and then they'd. ( ) another bar. The Dilly's Bar ( ), Kid Mason and Shoe Shine Perkins have restaurant, a drug store, wash room. I was on Central and it was booming.

MJ: At Kid Mason they served food there, right?

CJ: No.

MJ: They didn't serve food.

CJ: They used to have phone that you could go there buy. But it served ice cream, candy, sodas.

MJ: Well that's quite a variety that they had. And I remember –

CJ: And then Kid Mason's son, which is Ralph, he opened up a haberdashery and shoe store in West Tampa.

MJ: That's right. That's right. Yeah, right there on Main St.

CJ: On Main.

MJ: Is there anything else you would like to add to the interview?

CJ: I just wished that they would build some restaurants over there. Over Cole Bright so it won't have to be--. Cause yesterday I went up to a store and I wanted ( ). No you can't get no crabs ( ).

MJ: Often back in those days in those business that were in and around Central that was a benefit to the community.

CJ: ( ) those people would feed you. You could hardly knock and they would find you a job. And I believe that if Moses White was living today he would have a lottery and then Lee Davis and Kid Mason and Charlie Moon. I believe they would help a lot of people ( ). And when Charlie Moon got killed I was living at the man that killed him. Charlie McAdam.

MJ: Do you know what year that was?

CJ: No.

MJ: But he was, Charlie Moon was a business man there too.

CJ: Yeah. Charlie Moon, Henry Joyner, Moses White, Kid Mason, Ms. Harris, and a um Lovey Beauty Shop she had a beauty shop on Central Mrs. Solomon, Charlie's sister. It was, it was -- the money you pay now to get a hair done ( ). I miss it. I stay across the field from it. I go out some times and just sit out there. And look at how they're messing with um ( ). And that's why I said they need security guards out there.

MJ: I guess, businesses and some other things that made that area what it once was.

CJ: ( ) I was talking to some people that said ( ).

MJ: That was one of the things that was around Central Avenue was the Kid Mason Center, that recreation center. And then the building across the street from that, which is the one on Truman, that's about the last part of what that buildings that were originally around when Central.

CJ: Now, Billy ( ) the old man, he was real nice. But that son. Now the ( ) was going on that was ( ).

MJ: I tell you, it's interesting, how you know, so much of the – it changed in an almost short period of time, but ultimately if the initiatives that is being put forth now continue to build up, we'll see some changes in the --

CJ: ( ) that was houses. Where church at, that was houses all the way up there. Used to call them shotgun houses. And it was—you had ( ) Alvin to do, he worked for the ( ) now his name is Earl, now he could shine some shoes.

MJ: Do you see any of the people or many of the people that you knew back then? Are they still around Tampa?

CJ: Well, Ms. Harris. That's about all I know. Unless they was ( ) something, besides Moses White daughter. What I like about Bernadine, when I first started getting old and ( ) she was the first young lady to help me get my Social Security and SSI.

MJ: Mr. Jordan, well his daughter is now a representative in Tallahassee.

CJ: Well I never did associate with her like I did with Moses' daughter.

MJ: I see.

CJ: But she's, I got to give it to you pretty. Anytime I call her office ( ).

MJ: Yeah, so in a sense we're seeing really like the second and third generations from people who were business owners.

CJ: And I'm going to tell you something else again. It is a person that helped me. Bobby. I called Bobby the other day and told them what I had did. Oh that man was fussing ( ) was fussing. You keep the kids from hurting themselves in that hole. I took the thing and kinda pull it and Mr. Bob said I shouldn't do that. I said, but I give you the ( ).

MJ: Oh yes, that's Mr. Bowden with the City of Tampa. Bobby Bowden. Which actually I guess, when things go back to the riots that happened on Central, I think he was instrumental in helping establish some of the remedies to the riot with the white ( ).

CJ: That's ( ) you. Bobby ( ), Blackamel, Sandy Philmore, ( ) and Curtis Rainey.

MJ: Right. Which was something that sort of came about as a result of the riots, the Community Awareness and Action Team that monitors unrest among the city.

CJ: Something happened the other day. Cyrus went in and got me the bat ( ) walk out there. Now I said, “Now ya'll don't tell me to come in here please.” And my other boy, ( ) came out and stood with me and he said, “You heard what she said, she meant it.” So ( ) called the police, and the police came I was just swinging my bat. He said, “you did a good job.” I don't mind getting out there and helping my community. But if we could get us another president, for the resident council, we'd be better off.

MJ: That's a long history of being committed to Tampa and helping the community and I think your contribution is significant as so many people in Tampa know.

CJ: Well, I was sixteen years old when I ran away from home. And ah, when I ran away from home ( ) you had to sleep on the ground. And but I could go in the house and take a bath and I couldn't stand that 'cause she said I ran away from home when I wasn't -- My first ( ) I deserved to stay in her house. I picked sweet potatoes and I garden in the spring to get up and I went to ( ) City. And I met a dude in Tallahassee. I was laying down a job and I left him up in Tallahassee. Come here and liked it and I been here ever since.

MJ: O.K. Well Tampa's a lot better off as a result of your presence here. And I know that first hand and it's always a delight to work with you and see you here in the –

CJ: As I was talking to ah, the white lady, at in your office, I call it. Because she is.

MJ: Oh, Katherine Grisome? Marianne Torretta?

CJ: She's Spanish like.

MJ: Yeah, that's Marianne.

CJ: I was talking to her about you. I said, When I first met him ( ) . I said, but you all ( ) you know, ( ).

MJ: Well, we appreciate your time and certainly your experience and your contribution to the community and also your memories of Central Avenue.

CJ: On Central I'll see her sometime, a friend of mine called ( ). She says, “Why are you crying?” I say, “Every time I look across that field I think about Central Ave. Girl you crazy!” I said, “Well, I just have to be crazy, cause that's what I do.”

MJ: Yeah you know, one day I was - just last week, coming up going by where you live at and it's true when you go to - when you get to that first street after you leave your house your always accustomed to looking to the right and seeing Central. Right, the back part of those buildings.

CJ: The worst part about it is we had some black polices and they wasn't the ones that ( ) the residents like they do.

MJ: Yeah, it's definitely a new day, but hopefully, through your efforts and more concerned citizens that we'll have a chance to make it better. Well, thank you very much Ms. Jackson.